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Calling All Cold Weather Saddle Hunters - Designing a Garment for Us!

kmleach

kmleach

Active Member
Vendor Rep
Joined
Dec 4, 2018
Messages
186
Well, I diligently followed the "Calling All Ameristep Users!" thread that Nutterbutter started and now we have Squirrel Steps, another great platform option for the growing saddle hunting community. I only recently started my saddle hunting adventures during our December late archery season here in Michigan, but after a month in our cold temps using the layering systems that had worked great in a tree stand, I came to the conclusion that in order for this to work in a saddle we really need a warm garment specifically designed it. In short, I froze my butt off and I’m an engineer at heart so it’s time to solve the problem.

Now, I have not tried a Heater Body Suit (HBS) or IWOM, both being options that can work with modification in a saddle (albeit with tradeoffs) as has been discussed in several threads that I’ve referenced below, but I personally would rather not have to cutup a piece of technical clothing after spending a bunch of money on it, I want it ready to go off the shelf. I’ve begun prototyping a potential solution and would like to seek feedback from the great knowledge base we have here on SaddleHunter before I continue forward.

Primary problems with cold weather garments for saddle hunting:

If worn under a saddle:
There is no place for the bridge (either removable or fixed) to pass through without modification
It is difficult to adjust the saddle when this is inevitably necessary
Difficult to put on while in the tree, usually requires putting on the garment at the base of the tree before climbing if time allows.
HBS and IWOM reduce mobility in the tree

If worn over a saddle:
Insulation gets compressed and is not as affective, this virtually eliminates down as an option despite having the best weight to insulating ratio.
Saddle fit can be compromised often causing it to ride up or slide around more than normal
Layers bind up around the saddle causing pinching, pant legs to ride up, etc.

Current Solutions in Use:
jackets, bibs, or HBS’s modified by cutting slots for bridge to pass through (requires removable bridge)
Stock IWOM (requires removable bridge, reduces mobility in tree, can be difficult to climb tree in or put on while in tree, some complain it is noisy)
lots of hand warmers with mid weight laters
doing exercises in the tree to create blood flow (at the expense of potentially spooking deer)
ditch the saddle all together, revert to ground hunting or a treestand

A couple previous threads (there are others) where this topic was discussed for reference…

Tips for cold weather in the saddle?
"How hard is it to manage layering in the saddle? You have 2 choices under or over your saddle. If under, insulation will become compressed, especially if you are using down. If over your bridge will more than likely get in the way. To mitigate this, some gents are opening a slit in front of their jacket. Others using a removable bridge are opening 2 slits in either side of their bibs etc. so they attach and detach their bridge and lineman lanyard."

Heater Body Suit/IWOM
"Only way I've figured out to stay warm in super cold weather and the saddle is heavy weight base clothing and quality mid to outter layer. The the way I hunt with the saddle is tedious I don't need no clothing restrictions but I need warmth. No iwom, Warmbag or HBS will work for me and I'm a very agile and mobile 145lb fella."

"Maybe we can get the owner of heater body suit to design one just for saddles or maybe one of you do it yourself guys can make one."

"The mod I am thinking of with slits would basically extend from the slit that you are using all the way to the bottom so that you could put it on once you are already in the tree and then seal up the bottoms around your bridge."

"I have used the HBS out of a fixed position tree stand and it worked great but I don't imagine you could use it while hunting from the saddle for several reasons. First you'd have to put it on under the saddle and it quite bulky so you'd have to have a saddle that was big enough to go over the HBS, unless you try and wear it over the saddle but that presents a whole different set of problems. Second then you'd have to climb with the HBS on, it covers your feet and comes with booties to go over your boots, not only would it be a real task climbing this way but you risk ripping the fabric while climbing. Third if you did make it up without damaging the suit you still would be standing on and moving around with the suit fabric on your steps and while it might be quiet you still run the risk of ripping the fabric or wearing holes in it moving around on the steps while on stand. Finally if you put the saddle on first and then the HBS over it the tie off point is as far as you'll be able to zip it and if you put the saddle on the outside depending on how high up it sits on you it may interfere with the top falling away like it should."

"I had the HBS and there's no way you could hunt from the saddle with that thing. Actually, you probably could do it, but I think you'd lose all the versatility that makes the saddle such an attractive option. If it's cold enough to use an HBS (<mid-30s for me) I'll hunt out of fixed stand or my climber. The tree saddle FOR ME is a warm weather hunting system."

As for my design thoughts…my initial thinking is for a coverall type garment that is worn over top of the saddle. It would have the following features:

Double zipper system down the middle front with exit holes off the front edge of the hips for the bridge allowing for the garment to be put on over the saddle without requiring a removable bridge, this would allow for easily putting on while elevated in a tree.
Coverall design is more mobile than a HBS/IWOM style so could be worn while climbing if desired but also does not restrict mobility in the tree, a primary saddle hunting advantage
Rear zipper allowing access to saddle for adjustments throughout the sit
Built in knee pads
what else?

Long term, other characteristics such as weight, being quiet, packability, etc. will all be a part of the final design, but I would like to gets some feedback on the initial concept. I borrowed a sewing machine and put together a mock yet functional design with some fleece last week. My primary concern was to test the ability to put it on without having to remove my bridge and that worked great. The front zippers extend all the way down through the exit holes allowing the bridge to pass through before they are zipped up. The exit holes also have cinches to close them up tight around the base of the bridge to prevent air flow and heat loss. Attached are some pictures of me over the weekend testing it out.

So what do you all think? I’d love to hear your feedback. Thanks!

IMG_2223.JPGIMG_2224.JPGIMG_2226.JPGIMG_2227.JPGIMG_2228.JPGIMG_2229.JPG
 
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@Deltahuntr and I were discussing something like this in the earlier part of the season. In the South it is not as crucial to have for sure. There's only typically a handful of days it will come in handy. But he suggested instead of having zippers having magnets sewn into the fabric so the magnets soft-close around you. I don't know if this would help or make the system easier to put on in a tree. In my mind it seems easier than fumbling around with zippers. Just food for thought.
 
Let me start by saying I'm also a northern Michigan hunter so I understand hunting in the cold. I've never been a big fan of coveralls, I'm a bibs and jacket guy. I generally wear my lower layers in and pack my upper layers to the tree and I pull them up and put them on once settled in the tree. That said, I really like the two additional zipper concept. For a jacket wearer like me bridge line zippers would only need to come up from the bottom hem of the jacket along the outside edges to about pocket height. Leave them unzipped putting on the jacket, route the slots over the bridge and zip up the zippers. It leaves all the upper of the jacket intact and seamless (other than the normal zipper) and only requires two short zippers along the sides. Those allow the option of remaining zipped if you want to use the jacket for something other than in the saddle.
 
If you make bibs please make the zipper on the inside of the legs. Where you can unzip them and fold them up the out side of your legs and walk around. Have them button to the waist somehow.
I’m not sure if any clothing line does this or not but I’m interested in something like this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
That looks like a good design. An easier route would be to modify a normal set of coveralls with a cuff with either a drawstring or elastic end and just add a carabiner to one side of the bridge.
 
I hunt northern Wisconsin and prefer bibs and a jacket. I bought the Sitka fanatic line (last summer instead of modding my heater body suit) and was toasty warm down into the mid 20s with only a mid weight Cabela's ecwcs base layer. My thought process was prior to the Sitka gear but never obtained was a heated fleece jacket. Milwaukee makes one that others I know use and like. I also bought the saddle butt warmer from tethryd... That was worth it's weight in gold in my humble opinion. I think that really kept my legs warm as well.

I found that wearing the fanatic vest really helped to keep me warm under the jacket. I never wore a vest before and was surprised how well it worked. With my upper body warm, it slowed me to wear less on my legs.

I agree with zippers/magnets on the inside of the legs. You could put them on easier. A magnet enclosure on the bridge area as well. A windproof material would be mandatory as well.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk
 
kmleach said:
Well, I diligently followed the "Calling All Ameristep Users!" thread that Nutterbutter started and now we have Squirrel Steps, another great platform option for the growing saddle hunting community. I only recently started my saddle hunting adventures during our December late archery season here in Michigan, but after a month in our cold temps using the layering systems that had worked great in a tree stand, I came to the conclusion that in order for this to work in a saddle we really need a warm garment specifically designed it. In short, I froze my butt off and I’m an engineer at heart so it’s time to solve the problem.

Now, I have not tried a Heater Body Suit (HBS) or IWOM, both being options that can work with modification in a saddle (albeit with tradeoffs) as has been discussed in several threads that I’ve referenced below, but I personally would rather not have to cutup a piece of technical clothing after spending a bunch of money on it, I want it ready to go off the shelf. I’ve begun prototyping a potential solution and would like to seek feedback from the great knowledge base we have here on SaddleHunter before I continue forward.

Primary problems with cold weather garments for saddle hunting:

If worn under a saddle:
There is no place for the bridge (either removable or fixed) to pass through without modification
It is difficult to adjust the saddle when this is inevitably necessary
Difficult to put on while in the tree, usually requires putting on the garment at the base of the tree before climbing if time allows.
HBS and IWOM reduce mobility in the tree

If worn over a saddle:
Insulation gets compressed and is not as affective, this virtually eliminates down as an option despite having the best weight to insulating ratio.
Saddle fit can be compromised often causing it to ride up or slide around more than normal
Layers bind up around the saddle causing pinching, pant legs to ride up, etc.

Current Solutions in Use:
jackets, bibs, or HBS’s modified by cutting slots for bridge to pass through (requires removable bridge)
Stock IWOM (requires removable bridge, reduces mobility in tree, can be difficult to climb tree in or put on while in tree, some complain it is noisy)
lots of hand warmers with mid weight laters
doing exercises in the tree to create blood flow (at the expense of potentially spooking deer)
ditch the saddle all together, revert to ground hunting or a treestand

A couple previous threads (there are others) where this topic was discussed for reference…

Tips for cold weather in the saddle?
"How hard is it to manage layering in the saddle? You have 2 choices under or over your saddle. If under, insulation will become compressed, especially if you are using down. If over your bridge will more than likely get in the way. To mitigate this, some gents are opening a slit in front of their jacket. Others using a removable bridge are opening 2 slits in either side of their bibs etc. so they attach and detach their bridge and lineman lanyard."

Heater Body Suit/IWOM
"Only way I've figured out to stay warm in super cold weather and the saddle is heavy weight base clothing and quality mid to outter layer. The the way I hunt with the saddle is tedious I don't need no clothing restrictions but I need warmth. No iwom, Warmbag or HBS will work for me and I'm a very agile and mobile 145lb fella."

"Maybe we can get the owner of heater body suit to design one just for saddles or maybe one of you do it yourself guys can make one."

"The mod I am thinking of with slits would basically extend from the slit that you are using all the way to the bottom so that you could put it on once you are already in the tree and then seal up the bottoms around your bridge."

"I have used the HBS out of a fixed position tree stand and it worked great but I don't imagine you could use it while hunting from the saddle for several reasons. First you'd have to put it on under the saddle and it quite bulky so you'd have to have a saddle that was big enough to go over the HBS, unless you try and wear it over the saddle but that presents a whole different set of problems. Second then you'd have to climb with the HBS on, it covers your feet and comes with booties to go over your boots, not only would it be a real task climbing this way but you risk ripping the fabric while climbing. Third if you did make it up without damaging the suit you still would be standing on and moving around with the suit fabric on your steps and while it might be quiet you still run the risk of ripping the fabric or wearing holes in it moving around on the steps while on stand. Finally if you put the saddle on first and then the HBS over it the tie off point is as far as you'll be able to zip it and if you put the saddle on the outside depending on how high up it sits on you it may interfere with the top falling away like it should."

"I had the HBS and there's no way you could hunt from the saddle with that thing. Actually, you probably could do it, but I think you'd lose all the versatility that makes the saddle such an attractive option. If it's cold enough to use an HBS (<mid-30s for me) I'll hunt out of fixed stand or my climber. The tree saddle FOR ME is a warm weather hunting system."

As for my design thoughts…my initial thinking is for a coverall type garment that is worn over top of the saddle. It would have the following features:

Double zipper system down the middle front with exit holes off the front edge of the hips for the bridge allowing for the garment to be put on over the saddle without requiring a removable bridge, this would allow for easily putting on while elevated in a tree.
Coverall design is more mobile than a HBS/IWOM style so could be worn while climbing if desired but also does not restrict mobility in the tree, a primary saddle hunting advantage
Rear zipper allowing access to saddle for adjustments throughout the sit
Built in knee pads
what else?

Long term, other characteristics such as weight, being quiet, packability, etc. will all be a part of the final design, but I would like to gets some feedback on the initial concept. I borrowed a sewing machine and put together a mock yet functional design with some fleece last week. My primary concern was to test the ability to put it on without having to remove my bridge and that worked great. The front zippers extend all the way down through the exit holes allowing the bridge to pass through before they are zipped up. The exit holes also have cinches to close them up tight around the base of the bridge to prevent air flow and heat loss. Attached are some pictures of me over the weekend testing it out.

So what do you all think? I’d love to hear your feedback. Thanks!

View attachment 9319View attachment 9320View attachment 9321View attachment 9322View attachment 9323View attachment 9324
Click to expand...


a saddle suit with a fleece saddle inside, very cool that would eliminate a lot of my problems with being cold

going to get my wife onto this to make me a saddle suit, kudos

just an after thought try to fall out of that setup ;)
 
Hunting in mid-Michigan a few weeks ago I was going through the same process. Like others, I'm a bibs and jacket guy. I plan to take my jacket in to get it modified and see how I like it. I was thinking the same thing as @boyne bowhunter, just adding slits for the bridge/linemans loops to pass through. Zippers add cost to a production suit, so perhaps a few snaps or magnets to close the slit back up. I'm affiliated with a startup hunting clothing company and will be doing anything I can do for our next production run to add saddle hunting friendly jackets. For this year, we may offer the option of customizing your jacket to add the slits and have this done by a local seamstress.
 
I like Denots don’t need this kind of cold weather protection often and I also like other have suggested prefer bib and jacket. I did hunt in 16 and 17 degrees last year. I know that’s not much for you northern guys but for this coonass that is an arctic freeze. BUT what would be the most beneficial to me would be something that I could pretty easily put on once I’m settled in up in the tree.

In my case it almost doesn’t matter what I wear. If I have to hike in and climb a tree with almost any amount of wind protection on, I am sweating like a pig once I get settled in. My preference would be to layer as needed, then once I’ve got settled in the tree and cooled down be able to put something on to protect me from the wind and cold. It doesn’t even matter to me if it fits really lose or you can easily rip it off like a stripper suit. As long as it can cover me over my saddle and stop the wind. I would definitely not like being wrapped up inside a heater body suit though. I want to be able to move my arms and legs without having to open it up.


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I would buy a coverall like that but it would have to be windproof, warmer, and pack more compact than my current setup just layering a FL woodbury and krptek puffy pants. That got me down to 15 degrees, even with no butt warmer I was fine.

Not a bib guy, no interest in saddle bibs here.
 
What about designing a "skirt" that covers the midsection? Like an SBW that wraps all the way around and has the holes for the bridge? With a built in hand muff. I think that would actually be my optimal choice.
 
I"m a bibs and JAcket guy here in VT. I also hate fleece as an outer layer. thought quiet, the collects snow, freezes, collects bark, gets pretty wet easily, etc. I wear wool the majority of the time, as it has many of the same characteristics as fleece(good and bad) but it stays warm when wet, and I find it a little more water resistand. Real Cold days, its down bibs and down jacket. I"ve found the Web to be my perfect cold weather saddle, so not a ton of need for a specific outfit for the cold, but these are some neat ideas.

When I used to hunt out of my RCH, I would wear my bibs over the top and just unzip my fly, pull out the belay loop and clip in. worked great, an old Iceclimbing trick..
 
elk yinzer said:
What about designing a "skirt" that covers the midsection? Like an SBW that wraps all the way around and has the holes for the bridge? With a built in hand muff. I think that would actually be my optimal choice.
Click to expand...
This doesn't solve the problem of wearing a jacket/parka that is getting bunched up when trying to wear it with a saddle on.
 
DanO said:
This doesn't solve the problem of wearing a jacket/parka that is getting bunched up when trying to wear it with a saddle on.
Click to expand...

I don't have that problem. I cinch the bottom of my jacket and pull it down. The lineman's loops on the Kite actually help keep it in position. What it does do is blocks my pockets when I am sitting so I need a muff to keep my hands warm.
 
elk yinzer said:
I don't have that problem. I cinch the bottom of my jacket and pull it down. The lineman's loops on the Kite actually help keep it in position. What it does do is blocks my pockets when I am sitting so I need a muff to keep my hands warm.
Click to expand...
Easy solution to the hands issue is to get a jacket with double napolean pockets. also is nice because if it's raining, the rain doesnt run down your jacket into your pockets...
 
I forgot to add that I carry in my stuff and put my bibs in at the base of the tree. I climb up and then put on my jacket when I get cooled down.

I really like this idea. I'm thinking something similar to the arse opening (but in the front) on the first lite sanctuary that goes down the inside of the legs to the feet. This would accomplish the room for the bridge hook up.


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I've been thinking about this a bit this morning and it occurs to me that I really don't have much issue pulling my jacket down between the saddle and my hips. My biggest issue is that I like to sit with my hands in my jacket pockets and the bridge directly interferes with this. In the early season I keep my hands in the jacket pockets to keep the mosquitoes from feasting and obviously in the later season I do this to keep my fingers warm. The pockets also provide a comfortable rest point for my arms. In order to gain access to my pockets I have to pull my jackets forward as far as I can to allow my hands access. This pulls the jacket tight across my back reducing the effectiveness of the insulation.

I typically wear two overlayed jackets in the cold months, an inner Cabelas Wooltimate jacket with my Scentlok Full Season over it. I may look at just modifying my outer jacket with zipper closed slits so my pockets can lay where they normal would. I think some trials are in order. Thanks for starting me on that track.
 
denots said:
@Deltahuntr and I were discussing something like this in the earlier part of the season. In the South it is not as crucial to have for sure. There's only typically a handful of days it will come in handy. But he suggested instead of having zippers having magnets sewn into the fabric so the magnets soft-close around you. I don't know if this would help or make the system easier to put on in a tree. In my mind it seems easier than fumbling around with zippers. Just food for thought.
Click to expand...

I’ve had jackets with pockets like this, it is definitely a very easy and quiet method. The drawback this had for me was that the closure wasn’t very secure and the magnets add more weight and cost to the construction.
 
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